But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Just got my first 29er. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. We need to go deeper. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Stab happy!". I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Nothing like on an ebike. Hey Ralf Hauser!! For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. It also depends on the bike too. Indeed Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide range of bikes at various price points. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? What ever happened to grit?!?! To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. It doesn't feel good. So when the new version is so much better Refinement is all relative. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. Probably more than some rattle. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. The Levo SL? A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. - High quality display & controller Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. Gear or similar. Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Posted Oct 21, 2020. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. No, you're running the latest EP8. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Click on a component to learn more. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. is a broken record . We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. The sign of a true technical rider. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! For commercial info: info@eplus.bike. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. I love the progression of Ebikes! Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. Specialized is close to this. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode.